FORUMS > Wigan Warriors > Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE |
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| I keep hearing talk of this "Golden Generation". Given that so many careers falter between Academy and first team, what makes everyone so sure these youngsters are going to make the grade? More specifically that they're going to make the grade at the level Saints would be looking for.
I think back to the number of players tipped for big things at Wigan and I'd estimate that no more than 1 in 4 (and probably much less than that) actually go on to have long Wigan careers. Even the ones that make it (like George Williams for example) go on to have careers away from the club.
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| Quote: Phuzzy "I keep hearing talk of this "Golden Generation". Given that so many careers falter between Academy and first team, what makes everyone so sure these youngsters are going to make the grade? More specifically that they're going to make the grade at the level Saints would be looking for.
I think back to the number of players tipped for big things at Wigan and I'd estimate that no more than 1 in 4 (and probably much less than that) actually go on to have long Wigan careers. Even the ones that make it (like George Williams for example) go on to have careers away from the club.'"
Its a valid point that you make and there are certainly no guarantees. Will Roberts for example (scrum half) was looking really good and then did his cruciate ligament on loan at Swinton at 17 years of age. He has only just come back from that injury so it remains to be seen what impact it has had on him.
I can only speak from what I have seen watching a fair bit of them but its more that Mike Rush when interviewed said that he feels 4 or 5 of them won't just have solid SL careers but he described them as "game changers" so when your CEO and someone who to be fair has had a great pedigree in the youth side of rugby says that then it gives you extra confidence.
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| Quote: Zig "Saints have done it before, Delaney being a good example. I think a couple of lads, such as Vaughan, should have experienced first team rugby this season.'"
Just going back to this, I think Wellens made a mistake by not playing a couple of them against Hull. They had a lot of injuries and young lads playing and we were at home. That would have been a perfect game for the likes of Vaughan or Stephens.
However this was the first game after the Warrington defeat and I think Wellens wanted to get back on the horse and get a good win and didn't want to risk any changes.
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| Quote: Stu M "I've had a few weeks away from here as sat in Spain logging into my phone to argue with Phuzzy wasn't conducive to a relaxing family break and made me question a few things so I had a few weeks reflection. He's probably a decent bloke if I were to meet him.
However back to the rugby, I fully agree with everything TYG has said. We are awful to watch with a one dimensional attack and Warrington did a proper number on us. Williams ran the show and gave a masterclass in half back play and they went wide early and scorched us for pace.
I still think Wigan will win the comp as they have too many gamechangers and have pace to burn and a better pack than last season. My only surprise is that IMO they have only played two decent sides all season and lost them both and were a Sneyd brainfart away from losing at Salford.
They have had a very nice fixture list so far (even Leigh A was against a Leigh team with lots missing) It will be interesting to see how they go against Catalan and Warrington coming up although you coud argue Wigan will respond well to last week, perhaps Catalan will too who knows.
I actually think that Warrington would give Wigan a really good game if they are on it. They have a lot of pace, some decent forwards and the best 6 in the comp in Williams.
Back to Saints and unless we suddenly change our attack, we won't be winning the GF this season. Defensively we are still outstanding and we will always compete but Lomax is now a shadow of the player he was and for whatever reason Welsby has been very quiet, looking like he doesn't know where he should be at times.
I am going to HKR on Saturday and if we play like we did against Huddersfield and they play like they did against Wigan it will be a long day for me and my eldest lad.
We have a huge rebuilding phase coming up with likely Makinson, Hurrell, Blake and Matautia all leaving at the end of the season, not to mention we have still not replaced Grace.'"
Regarding the fixture list Stu we have only played two of our eight league fixtures at home. When we play London at home at the end of June we will have played 10 matches away and only three on home turf. If we are in contention at that point the LLS could be a forgone conclusion.
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| I've never really seen any explanation of why the fixture list has been so ridiculous. Did Wigan and Huddersfield ask for loads of away fixtures due to the shared facilities with football clubs? We usually have plenty of away games in early summer but it isn't the norm for early season. We also have the ridiculous scenario where we'll have played Castleford 4 times come June 14th (I know one was in the cup), yet we still won't have played a single fixture against Hull or Leeds and I know that sort of scenario is being played out across the league.
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| Quote: Stu M "Its a valid point that you make and there are certainly no guarantees. Will Roberts for example (scrum half) was looking really good and then did his cruciate ligament on loan at Swinton at 17 years of age. He has only just come back from that injury so it remains to be seen what impact it has had on him.
I can only speak from what I have seen watching a fair bit of them but its more that Mike Rush when interviewed said that he feels 4 or 5 of them won't just have solid SL careers but he described them as "game changers" so when your CEO and someone who to be fair has had a great pedigree in the youth side of rugby says that then it gives you extra confidence.'"
It seems to be a lot of pressure on those guys and, more importantly, pinning your hopes on an unknown quantity from the club's perspective. I guess it's one thing if you're a settled side and these young players are being drip fed into it but, with a major rebuild ahead, it could be a real gamble depending on which signings are made. The incomings would have to be proven quality and even then there are no guarantees.
A very risky strategy from Saints if they're counting on all these young players coming good but one that could pay off if it works out well.
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| Quote: Zig "Regarding the fixture list Stu we have only played two of our eight league fixtures at home. When we play London at home at the end of June we will have played 10 matches away and only three on home turf. If we are in contention at that point the LLS could be a forgone conclusion.'"
Not sure why this is funny though TYG, i think it is a very valid point.
We lose very few games at home under Peet. In fact, looking back we have only lost 2 home games under Peet. The 2022 semi final vs. Leeds & 1 game early last season vs. Catalan.
I would be confident if we are still up there come the second half of the season, when we will play mostly home games.
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| Quote: BoredWiganer "Not sure why this is funny though TYG, i think it is a very valid point.
We lose very few games at home under Peet. In fact, looking back we have only lost 2 home games under Peet. The 2022 semi final vs. Leeds & 1 game early last season vs. Catalan.
I would be confident if we are still up there come the second half of the season, when we will play mostly home games.'"
I think to suggest that top spot could be a foregone conclusion by June is ridiculous.
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| Quote: NickyKiss "I've never really seen any explanation of why the fixture list has been so ridiculous. Did Wigan and Huddersfield ask for loads of away fixtures due to the shared facilities with football clubs? We usually have plenty of away games in early summer but it isn't the norm for early season. We also have the ridiculous scenario where we'll have played Castleford 4 times come June 14th (I know one was in the cup), yet we still won't have played a single fixture against Hull or Leeds and I know that sort of scenario is being played out across the league.'"
It's so the football clubs can treat the pitch in their off season
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| Quote: bazdev "It's so the football clubs can treat the pitch in their off season'"
That accounts for late May/June but weāve been playing away most of the time since Feb, just as Huddersfield have been. Itās why that has been the case that Iām curious about, as well as the crazy situation of playing some clubs 3 times by June and other zero times. You struggle to read that much in to the league table because of it.
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| Quote: The Yellow Giraffe "I think to suggest that top spot could be a foregone conclusion by June is ridiculous.'"
āCould beā being the important words. Letās get to the end of June and have another discussion. It will be interesting to see if the bookies think it is ridiculous. One thing is for sure there arenāt many teams that will finish above Wigan if such a scenario arises.
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| Quote: NickyKiss "I've never really seen any explanation of why the fixture list has been so ridiculous. Did Wigan and Huddersfield ask for loads of away fixtures due to the shared facilities with football clubs? We usually have plenty of away games in early summer but it isn't the norm for early season. We also have the ridiculous scenario where we'll have played Castleford 4 times come June 14th (I know one was in the cup), yet we still won't have played a single fixture against Hull or Leeds and I know that sort of scenario is being played out across the league.'"
Probably to give you time to sort your ST situation out
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| Quote: Stu M "Probably to give you time to sort your ST situation out
Weāll need until July 2034 for that.
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| Quote: NickyKiss "Weāll need until July 2034 for that.'"
I know you like to look on the bright side but no need for mindless optimism!
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